Summary- Round #1

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Results so far:

1. Feeling great (though, ignoring minor aches, I did before).

2. Change in sleep patterns- Experiencing a strange side-effect where I wake up super early- and am WIDE awake (seem to require about 30mins less sleep per night).

3. I feel I have better focus- I seem able to concentrate clearly for an indefinite amount of time. Before I’d get tired after concentrating for a short time and would just divert my focus.

4. Possibly better hair (feels thicker).

Day 7                                     Day 25

5. Slight improvement in cardiovascular endurance. My average run limit is now 5.25 mins, where before starting this test it was 4.5 mins. {I run on the same treadmill about 2 times a week (sometimes 3 times) but have been doing for a year, and have had remarkable consistency.}

6. Noticed slight diarrhea after initial start of the experiment.

7. My dosage calculation was off- I scaled up the dosage based on rat-to- human scaling factor (surface area) and I should have used the mouse factor. So instead of about 35mg/day 2 times /wk for a mth, I used a slowly increasing dosage to about 60mg/day 2 times /wk.

8. My Blood labs & DNA Methylation BioAge analysis:

Notes– blood sugar down slightly; homosysteine is much better but this is because I’m taking folate now; AST is better (this is a good sign, because I was worried of possible liver/kidney damage); My thyroid autoimmune problem seems better because of lower antibody count, but the thyroid output appears worse because of a higher TSH.

 

 

 

Epigenitic biomarker Detail
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86 Comments


  1. I just found your site with a link from Fight Aging, and I want to commend you on your courage on pursuing this line of self experimentation. I was wondering if you might be able to share more details about your journey? What is your pace on the treadmill? Are you tracking blood pressure? Are you taking before and after blood tests? Are there any medical conditions that you are looking to improve? etc.


    1. Thank you. Running at speed 6, incline 6. Not tracking blood pressure but mine has thus far been normal and stable. And though not overweight, I discovered that I have metabolic syndrome – pre-diabetes blood sugar, high triglycerides, low HDL levels. (Metabolic syndrome affects 60% of the U.S. population older than age 50). I do plan to add my blood test results to this site.


      1. I have one question. Is the mouse still alive?


        1. Alive and kicking. Just got my epigenetic BioAge analysis. Posting it now to ‘Summary’.


    2. In a month also a different haircolor…look at hgh ..it’s also a bit the same.


      1. yes, my hair has darkened a little.


  2. I see it available from places such as Novus Bio, Thermo Fisher, and My Bio Source, but the details are written in such a manner that I can’t figure out whether it’s very expensive or am I just stupid.

    I understand that experimental drugs are expensive at first, so am not really surprised at the prices, but I’m also not sure whether I’m looking in the right place.

    Can I ask what is your source, and what price range it’s at for your test dose?


    1. It is very expensive. The amounts available are really only appropriate for rodent studies. I’m in the “biz” and have developed trusted suppliers over the years. The day the Dutch study came out I requested quotes to synthesize. The price will come down, but will probably still be expensive–I’m thinking a good dosage is maybe 20-30mg a couple times/week for a month long stretch every yr. Many have inquired about getting at a good price… I’m trying to see what efficiencies of scale can do to bring the price down—

      Best,
      darren


      1. I would be definitely interested in purchasing this peptide. You can see my Email as admin of this site, so please let me know if there should be a group buy. Thanks.


        1. I would be very interested in a group buy

          Is there a way to contact someone to find out if such a thing exists? (my email in the sign up form)

          Thank you


        2. Hey. I’m also interested. Could you message me on Telegram? My username is @Boselli


          1. Well I’d be interested also.
            What price must I think for that stuff



  4. How did you scale the dose? My estimate was at about 30 mg for a 70 Kg guy and you went well over that (most people would have started with a lower value for safety reasons)

    Check comments to Josh post. I´m Guillermo. I have tried D+Q and D+Q+Navit plus fasting and some other reasonable interventions with no noticeable effects, kind of disappointing….

    http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2017/03/28/senolytics-against-aging-snapshot-of-a-fast-moving-field/#comments


    1. Hi Guillermo, thx for visiting. My calc was: the study gave mice 5mg/kg, so a 90kg subject = 450mg and using the scaling factor of .16 (based on skin surface area) see table (but I see I should have used .08 for a mouse not .16 for a rat), anyway that gave me 72mg/day, but .08 gives 36mg/day. So your estimate is spot on for someone a little lighter. Any side effect with Navitoclax/ABT-263 ?
      Every time I tried even 1 Dasatinib–it kicked my ass. I can’t tolerate D at all. I tried it again along with the FOXO4-DRI early on thinking there may be synergies, but ugh. I’m thinking there are a lot of factors to determine how prevalent any affect might be… the biggest (I’d guess) is the more senescent cells a person has the bigger the effect.


      1. Hi, I cannot tell you about Nav alone as I tried to maximize the effect of my available quantities. The last attempt was as follows

        (I’m on rapamycin 0,5 mg daily, metformin 800 mg daily and lowcarb int fast)

        three days on Itraconazole 100mg/d for cytochrome P450 inhibition and 6grams/d of Quercetin as pretreatment

        three days of 100 mg D + 6g Q + 100 mg Nav fasting as much as possible

        Side effects were mostly a bearable headache same as the one from D+Q treatments

        No noticeable effects from that, I´m 46 and 65 Kg


        1. I forgot to add I included Mebendazole as a mild BCL 2 inhibitor, at 500 mg daily in pretreatment and treatment periods, same results. 🙁


      2. Hello,

        I’m looking into purchasing some FOXO4-DRI at some point.
        But I can’t seem to find anything at all on the net regarding foxo4-dri protocol & preparation, etc.
        You by chance don’t have a link or any info handy?

        thanks very much !

        BTW,
        I’m having what I consider outstanding results using GDF11, and the C60OO was great as well.


        1. I can describe what I do.
          1. Talk to doctor. Take baseline Bio-metrics.
          2. Do your own dosage calculations.
          3. You can buy bacteriostatic water online at veterinarian supply companies. You can buy syringes online (I’ve used- Total Diabetes Supply). I found the smaller the insulin needle- the less pain.
          4. Once you have your FOXO4-DRI, you need to ‘reconstitute’ it (inject bacteriostatic water into the vial).
          A trick here is that you need to withdraw the same volume of air out of the target vial or pressure builds ups.
          5. The less water you use the less that needs to be injected -and so less pain.
          6. Roll the vial gently to mix (but I found FOXO4-DRI dissolves very readily).
          7. pinch some belly or butt fat on your experimental subject, push the needle in and inject (the slower the better). Here’s details (with videos) on subcutaneous injection http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.aspx?cat=7001&id=7258
          8. Share your results.


          1. Thank you for the reply and info !

            Once I have started the FOXO4-DRI experimentation I will be glad to share my results.

            I think I might have skip my vacation this year in order
            to afford some FOXO4-DRI, but it’s probably worth it 🙂


        2. Hi Mike,

          I’m thinking about GDF 11. Do you have any results to share?


    2. You had no side effects with Navitoclax either? Are you sure you used the real one? Unity Biotech seems to prefer Navitoclax in their new study on arthritis. I would like to try it how high was your dosage? My calculations give me something around 100 mg.


  5. The missing link is that there are no reliable biomarkers (short of killing the mouse and examining its tissue to count senescent cell density) to tell if the senescent cell load is decreasing or not.

    Does anyone know of research into developing reliable biomarkers?


      1. Has the epigenetic clock been correlated to senescent cell load?

        I think that for non-professional self experimenters, tests that are inexpensive and easily obtainable should be used. Special attention should be given to tests for conditions that senescent cell clearance has been shown to improve in mice. These tests should include BUN and creatinine for kidney function, blood pressure for cardiovascular function, blood glucose, A1C, triglycerides and cholesterol.

        Since inflammation is apparently the primary way that damage is caused by senescent cells, a C-reactive protein test could be run as a proxy for overall inflammation in the body.

        Exercise tolerance is probably not a reliable measure since exercise increases exercise tolerance.

        Reason, at fightaging.org, has written a basic outline for self experimenters at:

        https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2017/05/planning-a-single-person-trial-of-senolytic-drug-candidates/#comments


  7. Thanks for sharing, its appreciated )

    How its going so far ?
    If you dont mind.. have you experienced any changes in hormones department ?
    There is some risk involved with sertoli cells in testicules as they resemble some of senescent cell traits and could suffer (not likely) from this treatment.
    And also what type of price brucket one should expect per 10mg in a future ? From production cost standpoint + avarege markup in this business.

    Thanks in advance


    1. My pleasure. Going well. I need to post some kind of summary, but essentially. 1. Feeling great. 2. Weird side-effect where I wake up super early and am wide awake (seem to require less sleep). 3. possibly thicker hair. 4. possibly better mind-focus.
      Hormones- I noted no differences in that dept.
      Price -very difficult to guess- hopefully much lower, hopefully very soon.


      1. Thanks )

        “hopefully much lower, hopefully very soon” – sounds encouraging )


  8. Thank you for creating this blog and sharing your experiment. I am curious if you are noticing any changes in your skin as well as your hair. I am sure this is subjective but if your hair is different then perhaps the skin is also seeing change.


    1. hi, I haven’t noticed any change to my skin…


  9. Anyone know anything about Bucky Labs? They seem to have a much more reasonable price on FOXO4-DRI unless I’m not finding the right things on those other sites listed.


  10. Update! How are you feeling, what’s going on?


    1. Hi, Thank you for your interest.
      I’m still fine.
      I will be getting my blood labs soon; And I just received my Osiris DNA Methylation Analysis kit today.
      I will use these as a baseline for starting another 4 week round of FOXO4-DRI testing.


      1. You could be a hero! or just plain.. . Well lets say im goining to follow you because this could be an break-thru! Thank you so much!


  11. Ironic that in the quest to live longer, people are willing to risk the possibility of severe or even lethal side-effects (dementia, tumors etc.).

    No way I’d mess with my body like this.


    1. The real irony maybe that a lot of people smoke till death follows… and do all kinds of risky stuff that may shorten life.


      1. Don’t know why that’s the “real irony”. Nothing inherently wrong with taking risks that one knows will likely shorten one’s life, but if your goal is to lengthen your life – apparently because you are afraid of death – then it is indeed ironic that you take such huge risks.


  12. Fantastic blog, a job well done!

    Are you still in the “low sleep rythm”?

    Can’t wait to hear see your blood values

    Let me know when this will be available,


  13. Hello, you are in the news in The Netherlands today and I think Peter de Keizer is following your site as well. It will be interesting if you come into contact with him about your experience. “Researcher Peter de Keizer of the Erasmus MC in Rotterdam warns against the use of proxofim. It has only been tested on mice, but people seem to order online now – and to use it.” https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/gezondheid/onderzoeker-waarschuwt-middel-voor-verjonging-nog-niet-geschikt-voor-mensen


    1. Yeah, a national Dutch TV show was trying to get a hold of me urgently last eve– then they put pics of me on their TV show RTL4 – RTL nieuws
      It’s unreal how this is getting popular traction.


      1. Just as long as it don’t turn into a reality tv show !


  15. Interesting experiment. I will follow.


  16. Nice blog! Really curious About the results! Or as Jessy Pinkman would say. SCIENCE BITCH! Hope you will be Well!


  17. Hi, can you say if the changes in your body which are made with this stuff are permanently? If so, why continue to take it and if you still get progress, where is the limit you think? I’m really curious how this developes. Hope to hear from you! Greetings John


    1. The theory is that the chgs are kinda permanent. Like taking out the trash -that trash is gone, but more is on the way. Also, what percentage of senolytic cells was I actually able to shed? dunno.


  18. Do you feel your self now ten or twenty years youger now? And do you have more energy now? I’m verry curious about your answer. And your face is also looking youger?’

    Greetings, Rob


    1. well, I’ve had more energy, but this last weekend- I’ve had low energy. I notice no difference with my face—but I should do a before and after with this next cycle…


  19. You are an amazingly brave individual.

    However things like tread-mill times and “I’m feeling better” are absolutely useless kind of information.

    Bloodwork, controlled photographs of hair (hair grows about 1 cm per 1 month.. your photos are absolutely impossible to judge if any thickness has been added since you already had long hair and you just combed it), controlled photographs of let’s say some skin parts where wrinkles are clearly shown and etc.

    But for now that you have survived is a good indicator too 🙂


  20. I’ve sent a DNA sample for methylation analysis. Tomorrow will get my blood results.


    1. Keep us updated!


      1. added some blood lab data to the Summary comment.


  21. they say it,s very easy to make…..how can i make it lol
    actually i think you can make it very easy with the knowhow and equitment otherwise isn’t this possible …..it will be very soon on the black market for a cheaper price for shure.


  22. U should update your blog more often, last month its very quiet :). You make people so curious! Btw, do u know how long it took with the mice?


  23. The only blood result that stands out is a slightly elevated CRP of 1.2. According to the reference ranges on my own blood work, this should be below 0.5.

    This is indicative of some increased inflammation occurring in your system somewhere which is exactly what the senesecent cell removal is suppose to reduce.

    The process of triggering apoptosis in the senescent cells might trigger a temporary immune system response that could account for the increased CRP like you are fighting an infection. If the treatment is effective, I would expect the CRP to go back down to <.1 after clearance is complete. We'll see.


  24. Seth look at the table again… the uppermost row …yes those are year dates

    2005 – 14.6
    2016 – 50.7
    2017 Jun 2 – 38.4 (one month on FOXO4 peptide)

    lemme guess.. you aren’t good at reading tables 😀


  25. Are you still alive and feeling well?


  26. Dear hero,

    What happened with you? Could you give us some updates?

    Hope you do well!!


    1. Doing very well. Looking forward to doing another testing cycle -sometime in July.


  27. Thanks for sharing your blood test results with us.

    I assume all of the tests are fasting.

    Do you have any test results for BUN or Creatinine? These were the main test endpoints for the FOXO4-DRI study that you cite.

    Do you have any cholesterol and triglyceride results for June 2nd?


    1. Hi,
      yes, fasting.

        June 2/17

      BUN = 14
      Creatinine = 1.13

      I have a ttl cholesterol on June 8th (from blood donation) it was 187.


      1. Do you have BUN and Creatinine results for dates earlier than 6/2/17 so that we can get a sense of any trend line?


        1. yes, but not terribly recent:
          19-Sep-16
          BUN =16
          Creatinine =1.1

          22-Oct-16
          BUN =13
          Creatinine =1.05


  28. Dear hero,

    Is there something changed in your body. More muscle power, hair regrowth, decline of wrinkles? Or is this still a premature question?

    Thanks

    Michiel


    1. Hi, I’m taking care to get good baseline data and myself, and will start another cycle soon -this time 2mth- and should be able to have better evidence of any chgs.
      Best,
      darren


  29. Do you experience huge amount of hair growth?


    1. Hair just feels thicker than before…


  30. Any progress last few weeks?


    1. Hi Brian, I’m feeling fine.
      I started the second round a few weeks back but then stopped because I seem to be getting an immunogenic response now (the injection site is itchy and red like a bad mosquito bite)… will retry again shortly, the plan is take 35mg 2/wk – perhaps with a antihistamine.


      1. Do you inject yourself twice a week with 35mg?

        Maybe it is better to inject 5 times 14mg or the everyday 10 mg?

        You’re injecting in fat tissue, correct? For which reasons?

        Last question (which allready had been asked and hasn’t been answered or I didn’t read it proberly). Are there any articles for the production of the subtance? Or does anybody know how to produce it?


  31. Hi Darren,

    How do you do? Still feeling stronger day by day. There still no anny side effects for so far? The FOXO4 medicine you use, is it made in the USA. It’s a verry chemical medicine I’ve read. To buy it in China is risky I think?

    Now you’re feeling twenty years younger I assume, hahaha Or is this over the top? Did it also changed your metabolism and weight?

    I hope you’re doing well in time.

    greetings, Rob


  32. Can you post an image of the immunogenic response? Could be important as well to assess risks/side-effects. What are your current experiences/plans?

    Any experiences received from others who imitate you in the meantime (positive or negative)?


  33. Are you OK? Long time no news from you.


  34. Hi Darren,

    Very curious how things are going. Would be great to see a new blogpost online with the latest experiments you’ve done – and results (also if there is no effect 🙂

    greetings,
    George


    1. Hi all,
      I’m very healthy. Have started round#2 and feels the same as the first cycle. I’ve noticed the chg in sleep pattern.
      I’m taking 30mg approx 3 times/wk. Plan on re-taking my Epigenetic Biomarker test in about 3 weeks. I’m not sure it is possible to lower epigenetic bio-age–the three genes they look at may not be affected. But we shall see!
      Cheers,
      darren


  35. Are you still taking quercetin (or any powerful anti-oxidant) with this…might help with inflammation and other undesirable side effects. I’m thinking maybe you should try adding liposomic vit. C. Also, I’m not surprised about the side effects/reaction you had with dasatinib; original study was done with dasatinib, quercetin & navitoclax. I’d do navitoclax, quercetin & possibly curcumin (a natural senolytic) since navitoclax has less side effects than dasatinib even though the combo together might be more potent.


  36. Btw good luck with everything and keep us posted!


  37. You need to take more pictures of yourself.
    Your before and after hair pictures are so unclear I can’t tell whether your hair changed in colour, thickness or has started to grow at places it previously didn’t.
    And they could go in higher resolution. This isn’t 1997.

    And I would assume a medicine that kills dead cells would do all that and remove wrinkles. So make pictures of that too.

    Also, is the age estimation test you took before or after round #1?
    Will you do that test again after round #2?


  38. the documentary/special will be on a network called vpro. I’ll post a link when the video is avail online.


  39. Hey could you please tell me on which television show (I’m Dutch, and would love to see the show). Thanks


    1. The special will be on vpro.nl


  40. Disclaimer: It’s extremely risky to self-administer an experimental drug like this. Please do not try it at home.

    If anyone else is also crazy enough to be self-testing FOXO4-DRI, can you send me an email? ( [email protected] ) I would like to aggregate your data.

    Darren, if you want to really evaluate the peptide, please ignore those telling you to take other substances. These extras may confound your results.

    It is possible that you may generate anti-peptide neutralizing antibodies, which could explain your inflammatory response.

    You may want your doctor to save an extra vial of blood so that eventually more sophisticated analyses can be performed.


  41. Good morning,

    I’ve heard from you few days ago just when I saw a video from VPRO on youtube.
    Looking for more information on the internet I finally found this web site, and I have been reading all the comments here, and I wonder why nobody has written anything else since 11 months ago.
    How are you Darren, how do you feel?


    1. Hi, I feel great. Nothing has much changed in the last yr. My self-experimentations have roamed and have been inconsistent, so I have very little I can report. I’ve got a myDNA test I need to send in and also a telomere test to send in for analysis.
      I’ve been an early proponent of fasting, and finally the rest of the world appears to getting the word 🙂
      An important discovery in the senolytic department is Fisetin— it appears safe and a very good senolytic. Consider taking 1g for 2-5 days, 1 time per yr (if you are over 50) —but do your own research, pls.

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